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Letter of protest of Polish women to the Prime Minister, the Sejm, the Senate and the President of the Republic of Poland
We call on you, who make the law and represent the Republic, to restore certainty of protection and to reject words that stigmatize instead of protect. Let the law serve people, not political games
Jolanta Kwaśniewska, Agnieszka Holland, Danuta Wałęsa, Anna Komorowska, Olga Tokarczuk, Janina Ochojska, Krystyna Janda, Dominika Kulczyk. Collage Sestry
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On August 25, the President of Poland announced a veto of the government bill that was meant to regulate protection and support for families fleeing the war. This decision, and the language that accompanied it – promises to make aid for children conditional on their parent’s employment, prolonging the path to citizenship, reigniting historical disputes – is not a matter of mood, but of cold political calculation.
It strikes at Ukrainian refugee women, at their children, at the elderly and the sick; it also strikes at our schools, doctors, and local governments. Instead of certainty, it brings fear; instead of calm, it threatens family separations, secondary migration, and the erosion of trust in the Polish state.
Imagine that you are the ones at war defending your homeland – and a neighboring country treats your wives, mothers, and daughters as hostages of politics.
After the President’s decision, thousands of homes across Poland were filled with shock, bitterness, and a sense of betrayal. Mothers who fled with children and sick parents from cities and villages turned to rubble now ask themselves: where are we supposed to flee next? Women who chose Poland out of love and trust now feel that this love has not been reciprocated.
A child is not a lifeless entry in a statute, and the aid granted to that child cannot be used as leverage against their mother. Solidarity is not seasonal, it is not a trend. If it is true in March, it must also be true in August. Memory is not a cudgel. A state that, instead of healing the wounds of history, reaches for easy symbols does not build community. A state cannot be a street theater. A serious state chooses responsibility, not political spectacle: procedures, clear communication, protection of the most vulnerable.
We, Polish women – mothers, wives, daughters, sisters, and grandmothers – say it plainly: no one has the right to impose conditions, in our name, on women fleeing war. We will not accept the pain and suffering of people in need of our support being turned into fuel for political disputes. We will not allow the destruction of the trust on which community stands. This is a matter of national interest and of our common conscience. It is bridges – not walls – that turn neighbors into allies, and it is predictable and just law, together with the language of respect, that strengthens Poland’s security more than populist shouting from the podium.
Europe – and therefore we as well – has committed to continuity of protection for civilians fleeing aggression. It is our duty to keep that word. This means one thing: to confirm publicly, clearly, and without ambiguity that the families who trusted Poland will not wake up tomorrow in a legal vacuum; that no child will be punished because their parent does not have employment; that the language of power will not divide people into “ours” and “others.” For a child and their single mother, the law must be a shield, not a tool of coercion into loyalty and obedience. Politics must be service, not spectacle.
We call on you, who make the law and represent the Republic, to restore certainty of protection and to reject words that stigmatize instead of protect. Let the law serve people, not political games. Let Poland remain a home where a mother does not have to ask: “Where to now?” – because the answer will always be: “Stay in a country that keeps its word.”
This is not a dispute over legal technicalities. It is a question of the face of the Republic. Will it be a state of the word that is kept – or a state of words thrown to the wind? Will we stand on the side of mothers and children – or on the side of fear?
Signed: Polish women – mothers, wives, daughters, sisters, grandmothers.
As of today, the letter has been endorsed by over two thousand women from across Poland — among them three former First Ladies of the Republic of Poland, Nobel Prize laureate Olga Tokarczuk, and internationally acclaimed filmmaker Agnieszka Holland. Their voices stand alongside those of hundreds of other women — mothers, daughters, sisters, grandmothers — who have chosen to sign as a gesture of solidarity and moral responsibility.
The full list of signatories is available at the link below:
Melania Krych: What is this Zryw [eng. Surge] all about?
Julia Wojciechowska: We’re the generation that, at the time of the government transition in 2015, was still in our teens. Our coming of age was marked by constant political debate — at home, at school, on the streets. And it was a debate that neither included us nor spoke to us. But times have changed.
Agnieszka Gryz: Do you know the playbook for apathy? When the key political events unfold right under your nose, shaping your tomorrow, and yet you can neither cast a vote nor even raise your voice. Zryw didn’t begin the day we registered the Foundation — it began, piece by piece, within each of us, years ago.
JW: And yes, now we run a Foundation. We’re not selling a cat in a bag: we are political, but we are not partisan. We want to build the next generation of state leaders. We’ve just finished recruitment for our first zryw, a four-day public leadership retreat in the Tatra mountains.
Why public servants? Don’t we have enough of those?
JW: The bench is short and not very attractive. We have experts, and we have politicians. The experts have spent the last eight years climbing corporate ladders or building Euro-careers in Brussels; they have families to support. And suddenly they’re supposed to destabilize their lives to take a ministry job for a quarter of the salary? Meanwhile, there are plenty of young people who can and want to step in but no one is inviting them. And what’s more, when they knock on the door themselves, no one cares to open it.
AG: Right now, the most reliable “pipeline” into public service is through party youth wings. Those are often comprised of people who, from a very young age, have been focused solely on securing a particular seat. And once they’re in it, they don’t want to leave. What would their alternative be? And while not all youth wings are the same, the young people we’ve met often had neither vision nor their own ideas, only the party line that raised them.
That’s not the kind of public service we want Zryw to represent. Our diagnosis isn’t about a lack of knowledge or experience. What’s missing are people willing to make decisions and take responsibility for them; to risk and bear the consequences. State leaders, not mouthpieces of the party. I still remember being deeply struck by the words of Bartłomiej Sienkiewicz, then a minister. Asked about the stability of his profession, he replied that his coat always hung on the back of his chair: “I am a public servant and a politician, and I must always be ready… at any moment. If I have to leave, I take my coat and I go.” We want to fear neither stepping in nor out.
Who applied to the first Zryw? Who did you select?
AG: The range was incredible. From doctors and engineers to political science students and civil servants. We received applications from 149 towns across all 16 Polish regions, plus 12 cities abroad. The final group is eclectic in the best way: a trainee fighter jet pilot, a former health expert abroad, aspiring local government leader.
“Zryw” during introductory conversations. Photo: private archive
JW: But only 35% of applications came from women. However, among those invited for interviews, women made up half, because the candidates who did apply, were incredibly strong. That’s a slightly higher ratio than the proportion of women in our parliament. It shows that the imbalance of opportunities starts much earlier.
This won’t fix itself, but our group speaks for itself: neither Zryw nor Poland has a shortage of capable, ambitious women.
Right, I’ll tell you an anecdote. We recently received a lengthy comment on a blog post ["Our Favorite Elections: Who's Joining the September Zryw?" - Ed.], in which we mentioned the deficit of female applicants. Someone criticized us for “making up inequality,” since recruitment was open to everyone, they argued. “Anyone could click the link.” They claimed that bringing up such stats could discourage young men from public service because nowadays, any and all gender differences are painted as discrimination.
And how did you take that comment?
AG: Honestly, I was glad! Someone took the time to write out their thoughts. Polemic is a valuable legacy of Polish public life, and it’s an honor to partake in and to foster it. Of course, I disagreed with the arguments themselves, because discrimination and systemic inequality are not the same thing.
JW: In a nutshell, discrimination means unequal treatment or neglect. It would apply if one group had been treated preferentially. Then you could say the others were discriminated against. But we had no preferences. What we did consider were the ground realities of Poland’s education system and cultural patterns that shape what people feel is possible for them. And in Poland, that burden falls especially on young women, who are often brought up according to a different set of values. As girls, we’re taught to be polite, to obey. Boys will be boys: they get a pass to mess around, to take risks. And that carries over into adult life, including our careers.
AG: Equality doesn’t always mean equal opportunity. Leveling the playing field requires special attention to the needs shaped by years of conforming to social and cultural norms. And often, forms of exclusion that aren’t necessarily written into law but affect people’s lives nonetheless. Going forward, we pledge to ensure that women not only get access, but also an actual encouragement to apply.
JW: Many of us in Zryw studied abroad, which makes the contrast all the more striking. I was in England, where class divides are the bigger issue. But after returning to Poland, I’ve spoken with countless young women who face a powerful mental barrier—they doubt their own abilities and potential. And yet, so often, they have far greater knowledge and social awareness than many of the men I meet who are already part of the state apparatus.
As a Foundation, we can’t overlook this—when we see inequality, we take it into account.
How did Zryw come about?
AG: It all started with sleeping on mattresses. The year was 2023, a parliamentary election year — time to rise to the challenge. A dozen or so of us came together to build a campaign for Parliament from scratch. We barely knew each other. For several months, our candidate’s apartment turned into a kind of “transfer station”: it began with five people, by the end, there were fifteen, and many more passed through along the way. That group of fifteen became the core on which we built Zryw. Because we discovered something important — not only could we survive living on top of each other in one small flat, but we could actually make things happen together.
JW: It all started through word of mouth. In ’23 we were acting on our own initiative, and the news spread: to friends, and then to friends of friends. Take me and Aga, for example. We only knew each other from afar, and only virtually. Back during Covid, we happened to organize student conferences at the same time. Every now and then, we’d catch a glimpse of each other on Zoom or on social media. Then the parliamentary election came.
AG: That’s right. I asked if I could join the campaign; I texted Julia on Instagram, I had seen her repost something relating to our candidate. The timing was right, the whole thing was only getting started. After the successful election campaign, we wanted to harness that energy and channel it toward something. We realized there was no point in waiting for a window of opportunity, and we had to open it ourselves. That’s why we created Zryw: to capture that national surge of energy, give it shape, and direct it where it’s needed most.
From left to right: Agnieszka Gryz, Alicja Dryja, Alicja Kępka, Agnieszka Homańska. Photo: private archive
So, where is it needed most?
JW: Over the past two years, we’ve seen how much absurdity and inertia you run into when working in ministries. Take salaries, for example—some of them, quite frankly, make it impossible to live in the capital. 3,200 zł net? That’s an extreme case, but a real one. And many people in Zryw know this firsthand. They came back from abroad, wanting to work for the state, and were willing to accept those conditions because they had a vision. Some managed to endure, while others left—whether due to financial strain or a lack of room to grow.
AG: We believe that a qualitative generational shift in Poland’s public service is possible from within. For systemic change to take hold, you need to sow it in many places at once—because, in the end, the state needs capable people in both offices and the legislative process. But it’s also about showing that there are people worth making that change for.
We don’t want to open a showroom where all you can do is admire a luxury car from the outside. Zryw should be a garage, a place where you can actually get under the hood of your own car. We’ll give you the workshop, the tools, and access to great mechanics. And then it’s time to hit the road—with our support and community alongside you.
Who do you work with?
JW: Last year, we were the only organization from Poland accepted into the accelerator run by the Apolitical Foundation, which supports what they call political entrepreneurs. And despite the name, it’s not about businesspeople, but rather about those who create new models of civic and political engagement.
We’re also supported by, among others, the EFC Foundation, founded in memory of Roman Czernecki — a social innovator and educator. At Zryw, we believe that democracy requires not only institutions, but above all people: competent, empathetic and ready to act. In this sense, our mission and projects align deeply with EFC’s vision of building a strong democratic community.
AG: Among our allies is also the Mentors4Starters Foundation. From them, we’re learning how to build meaningful mentor–mentee relationships that truly benefit both sides. Maria Belka and Zofia Kłudka bring a wealth of practical knowledge and an equal willingness to share it with us.
How do you imagine the future of Zryw?
JW: Our mission is to find capable, driven people, encourage them either to stay in Poland or to come back, and equip them with the tools and knowledge they need to be effective in public service.
AG: While our zrywy [eng. surges]—the lowercase ones, meaning our short multi-day gatherings—are largely aimed at students who study in Poland and see their future here, we also see ourselves as a kind of “repatriation hub.” When you go abroad for your studies, you find countless networks and support systems that help you adapt to a new place. We believe Poland needs a similar network, but for those considering a return.
JW: Exactly. A Pole abroad is rarely alone. But a Pole returning after studies is a different story. For a long time, such a decision carried the stigma of disappointment or even failure. Nonsense! Poland is beautiful, innovative, and above all, it’s home. This is where we feel purpose, and this is where we see our future. And we want the privilege we had—finding each other in 2023, and being able to start working together—to be available to many more people. Because in the end, you need both something and someone to come back to. The flight home is just one plane ticket, but the decision to board it isn’t so simple. We want to show, in very concrete terms, that the return is worth it, and that it opens up incredible opportunities.
Kaja Puto: History shows that war is an opportunity for the emancipation of women. During the Second World War, European women began to work in industries previously dominated by men, such as railways and the military sector. Are we witnessing something similar in Ukraine today?
Liliya Faskhutdinova: Undoubtedly. Sectors where men previously dominated are now lacking workforce, and more and more women are being employed in them. This is due to the fact that many men are fighting on the frontlines, and thousands have already died there. Some have also refused to work because they are hiding from mobilisation.
You can increasingly see women behind the wheel of a bus or truck, in a mine or on a construction site. However, I would not call this emancipation. Women in Ukraine have been economically active since Soviet times, as employment was mandatory then. After the collapse of the USSR, wages became too low to survive on one income. Therefore, I see it differently: the war has made society more open to women taking on more diverse roles in the labour market.
It also works the other way around, because some men have taken up jobs in sectors dominated by women, such as education. This protects them from conscription, as teachers are considered critically important to the state and are not subject to mobilisation. Perhaps this is not the noblest motivation, but likely some of these teachers will remain in the profession after the war. This could have a positive impact on the gender balance among staff in Ukrainian schools.
And what about politics? Women play a huge role in the Ukrainian volunteer community, which supports the army and state institutions. This community enjoys public trust, which may translate into political success after the war. Are new female leaders already emerging?
Undoubtedly, after the war, new faces will appear in politics, and among them will be volunteers. However, I am not certain that they will be primarily women. Society is aware of the enormous contribution they make to volunteering - helping to raise funds for military equipment, medical supplies and so on. A certain image of the female volunteer has been entrenched in the collective imagination: an older woman weaving camouflage nets for soldiers. However, she usually remains unnamed. In my view, the most recognisable volunteers are men. They are the ones most often awarded and interviewed, and whose faces are known.
Recently, I asked my acquaintances whether they could name any female volunteers. Almost no one could. But everyone knows Serhiy Prytula or Vasyl Baidak. War or no war - it is harder for women to be recognised. Nevertheless, the trend of female activism in Ukrainian politics is on the rise. In the 2000s, women accounted for less than 10 per cent of parliamentarians, now it is over 20 per cent. This may be helped by the quotas introduced in 2019 in electoral lists. We have not had the opportunity to verify this, as no elections have taken place since the Russian invasion, except for local government elections.
A woman walks past sandbags installed for protection against Russian shelling in central Kyiv, Ukraine, Tuesday, June 7th 2022. Photo: AP Photo/Efrem Lukatsky, APTOPIX
Quotas were introduced to bring Ukrainian legislation closer to EU standards in the field of women's rights. Is this argument still convincing for Ukrainian society?
Yes. Ukrainians generally have an idealistic view of the West and want to be part of it. This makes it easier to promote progressive values. Tolerance towards LGBTQI+ people is growing - for many Ukrainians, it seems, precisely because they want to be Europeans. They do not want to resemble Russians, who persecute homosexuals and at the same time decriminalise domestic violence.
We have discussed positive trends that give hope for progress in the field of Ukrainian women's rights. Unfortunately, war also brings dangers in this area.
What do you mean?
There is a risk that when men return from war, they will be so revered that women will be expected to forgive them everything, to show gratitude, to bear them children, even more so than before. In the traditional image, a woman is a protectress, a caring goddess, a martyr who patiently endures all the hardships of family life.
In my parents’ generation, many women supported their husbands even if they abused alcohol. They called their decisions care and responsibility
In Poland, this is the «matka Polka», who «carries her cross». Fortunately, this model is receding into the past.
In Ukraine, it had also begun to fade. But then the war came, and everything became more complicated. Men returning from war find it difficult to reintegrate into reality. They have seen death and cruelty, many suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder, some are prone to violence.
To this are added broken bonds. Long months on the frontline mean that you often feel a stronger connection with your comrades in the trenches than with your family. After returning, this can ruin your relationship with your wife. Mistrust and jealousy arise, suspicions such as: «You cheated while I was gone». I know cases where men at the start of the war wanted their women to go abroad, but now treat them as traitors.
It is hard for me to talk about this. I am infinitely grateful to all the soldiers who are defending my country. If they behave inappropriately as a result of their experiences - I know it is not their fault. My heart breaks when I think about what they have endured.
This is the fault of Russia, which invaded your country.
Yes, it is the fault of the aggressor. But we, Ukraine, cannot allow their suffering to cause additional suffering for women and children. We all suffer, men and women, and many of us will have psychological problems for the rest of our lives.
The war will also leave its mark on future generations. The task of the Ukrainian state, as well as Ukrainian society, is to mitigate these terrible consequences
Are you not afraid that such a campaign may be perceived negatively? Already during the war, Ukrzaliznytsia introduced women-only compartments on night trains. This provoked the outrage of many men: «We are risking our lives for you, and you make us out to be predators?»
Of course, it will be met with resistance. Not only from men, but also from women, especially those whose husbands are fighting or have already returned from the front. Many problems in the army are already very difficult to talk about - gratitude to soldiers makes them taboo topics. However, if we truly want to be a European rule-of-law state, we must learn to find solutions for these uncomfortable problems.
A woman with her daughter waits for a train, trying to leave Kyiv, Ukraine, Thursday, February 24th 2022. Photo: AP Photo/Emilio Morenatti, APTOPIX
What problems do you mean?
For example, sexual harassment in the army. I am not saying this is a widespread issue, but such cases do occur, and they must be condemned. When, at the beginning of the Russian invasion, a victim of such violence publicly shared her experience, some people responded very critically. They accused her of discrediting the Ukrainian armed forces and implied that women join the army to find a boyfriend. Fortunately, after three years of full-scale war, it has become somewhat easier to talk about problems. We no longer censor ourselves as we did at the beginning.
How can the state help veterans?
Helping veterans is one part - they need psychological support, as well as comprehensive programmes to facilitate their reintegration into civilian life. For some, it would be good to receive a grant to start their own business (such programmes already exist), while others need help with employment. We must not allow war veterans to sit idle at home. This also applies to those who became disabled on the frontlines.
However, support is also needed for families. When a soldier returns from war, they bear a huge burden. They do not know what to expect or how to respond. Moreover, I believe a campaign should be directed specifically at women along the lines of: «You have the right to leave, even if your husband is a hero». Nothing justifies living with an abuser.
Nevertheless, the position of Ukrainian servicewomen has generally improved since 2014...
Yes, absolutely. Previously, they could hardly hold combat positions. They fought on the frontlines, but were officially, for example, cooks. Today, such cases are exceptions. Ukrainian servicewomen are appreciated on a symbolic level too - Defender of Ukraine Day, celebrated on 1 October, has been renamed Defender and Defendress of Ukraine Day. The Ministry of Defence acknowledges the contribution of servicewomen to the country’s defence, and stories like «beautiful women make our service more pleasant» are, fortunately, heard less and less in the media. However, it is still difficult for women in the army to be promoted to leadership positions.
A serious problem also concerns homosexual relationships among servicewomen. They are not recognised by the Ukrainian state. When your partner is wounded or taken prisoner, you will not be informed. When she dies, you cannot see her body.
When a biological mother dies, her partner has no rights to the child. This also applies to male military personnel, except that more children are raised in lesbian partnerships
Alright, but ultimately it is men in the army who face greater discrimination - unlike women, they are forcibly conscripted. Thus, they are deprived of their right to life and health, the fundamental human right...
I often hear this narrative from foreigners. It annoys me just as much as when our defenders are told that «killing people is wrong». Of course, it is wrong, but what are we supposed to do? For those who are not confronted daily with a threat to life, it is easy to theorise and criticise our decisions, and harder to offer alternatives. Surrender to Russia? Send everyone to the frontlines? Draw lots to decide which parent ends up in the army? How will we protect children and the elderly then? Who will work to keep the economy going?
Female volunteers of the women's mobile air defence group «Buchan Witches» undergo combat training in the Bucha area near Kyiv, Ukraine, Saturday, August 3rd 2024. The «Buchan Witches» group operates in the Bucha district to shoot down Russian drones approaching Kyiv. Photo: AP Photo/Efrem Lukatsky
Women, unlike men, were legally allowed to leave Ukraine.
This, in turn, is a huge challenge for the Ukrainian sisterhood. Tension has arisen between the women who left and those who stayed. Some of us blame each other: «You abandoned your country in its time of need, you ran away, you betrayed us». Or: «You stayed, you are ruining your children’s lives».
This is very sad to me. I believe everyone has the right to make the decision they think is best for their family. It is a tragic choice, because every decision is wrong in some way. This tension harms Ukraine because some refugee women may not want to return home because of it. I know women who left, and their families stopped speaking to them.
And will they be accepted back?
I think that when the war ends, this tension will subside, and people will begin to live new lives. But for many refugee women, this will be a reason not to return to Ukraine.
Are you not afraid that the negative impact of the war on the rights of Ukrainian women will outweigh the positive?
I do not know. I am an optimist, I hope the positive will prevail. But I assess the chances as fifty-fifty.
How has the war changed you as a feminist?
Before the full-scale war began, I would have said that above all, I am a woman. Nothing was more important to me in terms of my identity. Today I say that I am Ukrainian. War unites nationality more than anything else. If you do not know war, you will never understand it.
<frame>Liliya «Lila» Faskhutdinova is a feminist and human rights activist with ten years of experience in civil society, anti-discrimination programmes and gender equality advocacy. She received a bachelor's degree in philology from the Sorbonne and a master's degree in human rights from the University of Padua. She has worked with Syrian refugees in Turkey, internally displaced persons in Ukraine, people living with HIV, LGBTQI+ individuals and women. She currently lives in Lviv, where she is working on a women’s empowerment project at an international humanitarian organisation.<frame>
The «Green Border» by Polish director Agnieszka Holland was released in Ukrainian cinemas. It premiered last year at the 80th Venice International Film Festival. The «Green Border» film received a special award from the jury. It was also given the title of the best Polish movie of the year. Mariia Gorska, the chief editor of the Sestry.eu portal, met with Agnieszka Holland on the eve of the movie’s premiere at the Venice festival. To your attention - an interview with the outstanding Polish film director, that was first published on the portal on September 22 2023.
We’re meeting in Lady Agnieska’s old apartment in Warsaw. A live legend opens the doors for me. I brought white lilies to thank her for the movie about Holodomor [«The Price of Truth» premiered in February 2019 at the Berlin International Film Festival. - Edit]. We sat at a table underneath the painting «Saturn Devouring His Son» by Francisco Goya. I show Lady Holland the movie trailer that I brought on a flash drive from Ukraine. This is a part of the working material for the film saga about the writer Stanisław Vincenz - Homer of the Hutsuls. We were filming this movie in the Carpathians with a Polish-Ukrainian team before the war.
From the Polish side, Lady Holland’s friends were working on the movie about the author of the Hutsul epic «On the High Uplands» - among them were film director Jan Kidawa-Błoński, camera operator Łukasz Hutt and other artists. I often see their group photos from protests for democracy in Warsaw on Facebook. Oleg Drach was supposed to play Vincenz in our movie. He also appears in Holland’s latest movie «Green Border». We watch the trailer for the movie about Vincenz where I’m playing as his wife. In the finale, we are fleeing by foot through the snowy Carpathian mountains from the Soviet occupation with our children and a suitcase. I’m thinking about the plans impeded by the war and all the displaced people like me.
Mariia Gorska and Agnieszka Holland
We’re drinking strong black coffee, eating chocolate and talking. About tyrants and the nature of evil, about Ukrainian cinematography and helping the people on the frontlines. And also about the movie by the prominent director, «Green Border» which tells the story of how Putin and Lukashenko used migrants as weapons.
Mariia Gorska: Your previous film - «The Price of Truth» - is about a journalist who wanted to tell the world the truth about Holodomor in Ukraine more than anything. During the filming of «Green Border» you’ve worked as a journalist yourself. In preparation for the film, your team conducted hundreds of interviews with activists, border security, doctors, policemen and refugees. What’s it like to work on a problem that we’re still seeing on news reports on our TV screens?
Agnieszka Holland: From this point of view, this is a unique movie. Usually, artistic films tell stories about things that have already happened, that have been «frozen in amber», so to speak. Obviously, the situation is different in the case of the full-scale invasion - both today and back when the war started in Donbas after the annexation of Crimea. Ukrainian filmmakers were quick to react to that. I have had the impression that the world is standing on the edge of an abyss for a long time now. And if we don’t build a bridge over this void we will fall into it.
I’m just doing what I do best - movies that display danger, are shocking and impressive, movies that enable the viewer to understand and experience something on a deeper level
What issues, important for the viewer and for you as an artist, are raised in «Green Border»?
It is taboo to talk about what’s happening on the border between Poland and Belarus. Terrible things are happening there that cast Polish official services in a less than favorable light. We on the other hand talk about it aloud. It is about the fear of the «Other», who will suddenly come and disrupt our comfort zone. We fear such people, we fear the unfamiliar, we fear poverty, we fear otherness - different skin colour, different religion, different smells. We fear that they (refugees) will come and take away our comfort, our habits, our culture.
This fear is so potent that populist politicians, who are oftentimes autocratic and even totalitarian like Putin, exploit it. He sensed that the European Union is wealthy, rich and somewhat lazy - and it's very easy to destabilise it with this refugee threat. Populist politicians say: «We will stop them! But others (the opposition) will let them in and then this horde will overwhelm you! And these are terrible people - they spread germs and parasites, they hate women, they rape, they are pedophiles, zoophiles, terrorists.»
These migrants are so dehumanised that they cease to be seen as human beings in the eyes of many nations. And in such a situation, anything can be done to them, isn’t that so? We have already gone through this in the past and the recent history. When someone is not seen as human to us, but just as a cockroach, it becomes no problem to destroy them. This is what I’m afraid of.
I'm afraid that if we don't stop now, we'll be moving towards acceptance of extinction. That's what my movie is about
This movie caused an outrage in Polish mass media…
During the time of PiS (Law and Justice) government, state media didn't like me. They said, "The script was written by Putin and directed by Lukashenko," suggesting that I serve Putin and Lukashenko. To some extent, it's true because the script for this story was indeed written by Putin and Lukashenko directed it. Representatives of the free world in the European Union, like us, are assigned certain roles – just like refugees. However, the question remains open: which roles will we choose and whom will we play in this terrible mystery?
150 million people are fleeing from war, climate change and starvation - they are knocking on Europe’s door. What could be done to resolve this situation?
There are two options: either we become mass murderers, start bombing the boats in the Mediterranean Sea, install machine guns at the Belarussian border and start shooting, or we come up with something that will enable us to coexist and help each other.
A frame from «Green Border» by Holland. Photo: Agata Kubis / Kino Świat
The Poles have opened their homes and their hearts to Ukrainians who were fleeing the Russian war. What is your view on this?
The Poles were profoundly emotional when the full-scale invasion began.
People weren’t helping just to post photos on Instagram; they genuinely invested their time and money and sometimes even took risks by travelling deep into Ukraine. Many of my friends went there
They transported refugees, body armor for soldiers, medicine and animals. This was sincere and profound assistance that remains an important memory.
And when some PiS politician comes later and says that Ukrainians are ungrateful, I want to slap him in the face. Helping someone and demanding gratitude is a complete lack of class.
Ukraine is grateful to you! I would also like to thank you, Lady Holland, and Poland for your support. Has there been any story that has touched you personally?
We became good friends with Sasha Kostina’s family, the producer of «Pamfir» [a 2022 Ukrainian movie about a man’s return to his home village where he is forced to encounter the smuggling business that he tried to escape from for many years once again. - Edit.]. They’ve lived at our home in Brittany for a couple of months. It was a difficult time; everyone was in shock and had psychological trauma. They adopted a tiny baby from a hospital for premature babies. We were all with that little girl and a very kind and good boy, Timur, who was also born prematurely. I saw their suffering.
I used to be an emigrant myself, in Paris, many years ago. During martial law, I was abroad and suddenly found myself cut off from my family, with nothing but a suitcase. Since I had given several interviews against the regime, I couldn't return. That first year was very difficult until I managed to bring my daughter home. Therefore, I fully understand what such people feel. Those who fled from the occupied territories and have nowhere to return to, and those from Kyiv, Kharkiv, or Odesa, who live in constant stress.
Have you seen «Pamfir»?
Yes, I have. I saw this motion picture in 2022 in Cannes. Very powerful. I have also watched some other very good new Ukrainian movies, such as «Klondike» and «Butterfly Vision».
As an expert at the Ukrainian State Film Agency, I read the script for «Butterfly Vision». Maksym Nakonechnyi is a very talented young director, and Iryna Tsilyk wrote a powerful script. By the way, she is one of the authors of our online magazine «Sisters».
Me and Iryna are good friends. In 2022, we were on the documentary film jury at Cannes.
A frame from a teaser of the movie about Stanisław Vincenz
She probably told you about life in wartime Kyiv, which somewhat resembles Warsaw during the Warsaw Uprising [Agnieszka Holland’s mother, journalist Irena Rybczyńska-Holland, participated in the Warsaw Uprising. - Edit.]. Why does history repeat itself?
It’s because we haven’t learned anything. When I was filming movies about World War II (three of which are about the Holocaust), people asked me: «Why are you making movies on this subject? It’s nothing but history». And I would reply that I make them because I have the impression that this is not just history, that this threat can awaken at any time, and that the Holocaust was a kind of a vaccine for Europe and the world, but this vaccine has stopped working. It has passed, and we as humanity are once again ready for any crimes, horrors and tortures of apocalyptic scale.
Massive casualties, weaponised sexual violence, tortures and murders of thousands of city and village residents - today we’re observing the same things once again: in Izium, Kharkiv, Kherson and towns on the outskirts of Kyiv. What is this phenomenon of Putin and modern Russia, in your opinion? How could such cruelty and savagery be explained in this day and age?
This can only be explained by the nature of evil.
Humanity is inclined toward the evil. Nothing can hold back the evil’s potential if the mechanism is set running even by a single human being
It seemed as though there would no longer be any wars like the First or Second World Wars after the invention of the atomic bomb and other methods of remote warfare. But what is happening in Ukraine right now, what this frontline looks like, reminds me of the First World War. They sit in trenches on one side, they sit in trenches on the other side, advance by a kilometre, mine the area. It feels as though it’s not happening right now, as if it’s not real and as if it’s some kind of a historical reconstruction.
I have the same impression. The distance in time between today and World War II seems to have shortened with Russia’s invasion of Ukraine. I am currently reading Remarque. And when I scroll through my social media, seeing photos from the frontline, from the trenches, it feels as if the book is coming to life - pure horror.
And at the same time, life goes on as usual just 500km away. And after the initial strong emotions passed, no one even turns on the TV when the news about the war is on.
What are your thoughts on Putin? If you had to make a movie about him, what would be in it? What makes 120 million Russians obey him?
I think it is due to his confidence and voluntarism. Most of the 20th century’s tyrants weren’t great people. Hitler was a pathetic little manchild, Stalin was some kind of a tiny «beak-nosed» Georgian. I'm not just talking about physical traits, but also about the fact that they didn't have any unusual intellectual qualities. They all had some kind of psychopathy.
I believe Putin could also be labelled as a psychopath, a clinical narcissist. Such people become truly dangerous when they push the button that forces everyone to follow them. Just like the Pied Piper, right?
The Pied Piper plays the flute, and people, as if enchanted, follow him, believing that he will lead them to a place where they will be happy. In a sense, Putin is a copy of Stalin, but he is less interesting than the original. He is a disgusting person who does a lot of evil. The world would be a better place if he were to disappear from it.
There are still leaders in Europe who seek agreements with Russia. Pope Francis addresses Russian Catholic youth as the heirs of a great Russia, a country of outstanding culture and humanity. However, Russian culture is an imperial culture, and the history of this country is soaked in blood. Why are some Europeans still oblivious to this fact? And what will become of Russia in the future?
It’s common among world leaders to think that Russia is too big to leave behind. It’s not going anywhere so they believe they need to find ways to live with it and build relationships in such a manner that it becomes more beneficial for Russia to be peaceful. This was the plan, wasn’t it? Only later did it become clear that they were acting irrationally. All authoritarian regimes, especially those led by one person with a personality cult, do not act rationally. For them maintaining power is more important than the economic situation, the welfare, or the happiness of their citizens. These things are secondary. The citizens of an authoritarian country do not need wealth and happiness. They need to be forced into believing that only this particular leader, only this dictator, will save them and lead them to a better world.
Russia is a terrible country. And it is terribly unhappy. After all, the victims of all these Russian tyrants are the Russians themselves.
Mariia Gorska as Irene Vincenz
What else can we do to make Putin lose in Ukraine? Russia's mobilisation potential is enormous. They are prepared for a prolonged war and to inundate the entire world with the bodies of their soldiers.
A nuclear button can only be neutralised by another nuclear button. The crisis of Western democracy lies in the politicians’ lack of long-term perspective. Not so long ago, it was said that they act from election to election. Now, I believe, they’re just acting from poll to poll. And Putin is counting on this.
The danger is that this could stabilise and become trivialised as a conflict that simultaneously seems active and suppressed. This could drag on for years. But then the question arises: what country could endure this - and how would people withstand it?
This war must end! Not smolder - so that people don’t have to live as if they are on a volcano that’s about to explode
Ukraine needs larger amounts of money and high-end weaponry. And Western politicians must close their eyes to the fact that these weapons will be used beyond Ukrainian territory.
We’ve received major military support thanks to our friends like the Poles.
It is a «win-win» situation that benefits all of us - both Ukrainians and Poles. And when two sovereign nations work together, building trust and cooperation, the whole humanity benefits from it. This is especially important in the case of Poland and Ukraine due to our geopolitical situation. We share a common enemy and a common threat - Russia. Even if Putin disappears tomorrow, there is no guarantee that another head of the hydra won't emerge, is there? And there are no guarantees that the Russian people will be able to organise themselves in a democratic, non-imperial way. Therefore, we are compelled to cooperate. For us Poles, Ukraine is a guardian of our independence. On the other hand, without Poland, Ukraine will not enter Europe. We are Ukraine’s neighbours and one of its closest allies.
Many Ukrainian women, scattered around the world because of the war, read our magazine. What do you think of these women? What would you like to tell them?
You, Ukrainian women, have every right to fight for your life, your dignity, your children and your future. Do not let yourselves be oppressed and don’t think that you are not entitled to anything. Your compatriots, on the other hand, should understand that in the countries where they find themselves, people live differently. Therefore, Ukrainian women should also open their hearts and be sensitive to the identity, needs and traditions of those welcoming them.
What would you say to the residents of countries accepting Ukrainian refugees?
I would say that you should just help the people in need coming your way.
This dimension of help - human, personal, the most intimate - is the most important, for it builds the strongest bonds
On its course into the EU, Ukraine is forced to develop democracy amidst war. Poland travelled this path a long time ago - «Solidarity’s» victory inspired people on the Maidan. But your democracy is also threatened. Together, what can we do to protect our values?
We should keep an eye the hands of the politicians. We cannot let ourselves be fooled by fairytales, both in Ukraine and Poland. It is difficult because it is much easier to lie, manipulate and spread propaganda.
Politicians are not ashamed to use new technologies and let the genie out of the bottle by doing so. Soon, an ordinary human will not be able to distinguish the truth from lies
Social, not political institutions for truth research that will equip people with tools to distinguish truth from fake news should be created. And people should start doing it while they are still in school.
This sounds like a task for people like Gareth Jones, but is there anyone like that in the modern world?
Of course.
What world are we going to live in after the war?
We are going to heal our wounds and rebuild ourselves. There will be positive reconstruction energy, though there will also be much trauma, suffering and mourning. Europe and Ukrainians in particular will need a lot of optimistic enthusiasm.
It is important that this does not turn into a sense of inevitability described by Timothy Snyder. After the Second World War, it seemed as though the greatest trials were already behind us, but it turned out that evil still lurks among us and tends to its wounds.
It’s true.
Snyder also wrote about twenty lessons from the 20th century on tyranny. Which lesson is the most important to you?
The fact that there is no vaccine for tyranny. The worst-case scenarios will inevitably reoccur.
But you are an optimist! During the last hundred years, humanity, civilisation and human rights have evolved tremendously!
Yes, human rights have expanded. Social groups deprived of all rights have gradually gained them, and now humanity has become more inclusive. It even includes the welfare and rights of animals and plants.
So then, perhaps, we do have the chance to build a safer world?
This is a utopia. We are moving forward in small steps, but it's not a steady march. It's paroxysms: two steps forward, three steps back. Along this path, terrible events take place, suffering, torture and crimes occur. And then we move a little further again. This is not an optimistic path to a bright future; it's suffering and a struggle for every bit of freedom.
All of your movies are about moving beyond boundaries. What boundaries would you never cross?
The boundaries of humanity. We must always see a neighbour in another person. Of course, there are wars, when, for example, there's a Russian in front of us, and a soldier must shoot. But in all other situations, we cannot allow other people to become objects of hatred.
Thank you for this interview and for supporting Ukraine!
У школах Польщі навчається майже 200 тисяч школярів-українців, вже півтора роки від початку широкомасштабної війни Росії в Україні. Деякі проблеми інтеграції та організації навчального процесу вдалося подолати, але багато питань залишається. Які зміни чекають у новому навчальному році? Що зроблено для інтеграції українських дітей у польське учнівське середовище? Що буде, якщо повідомити неправильну адресу проживання шкільній адміністрації? Чим приватна школа відрізняється від державної? Про все це читаєте у матеріалі видання Sestry.
Про безплатні ноутбуки, іспити та інтеграцію
Минулоріч у польських школах виникали труднощі з адаптацією українських дітей-воєнних біженців. Питання були не лише через мовний бар’єр і нерозуміння навчального матеріалу. Діти з територій, охоплених війною, важко звикали до нового середовища, лякались гучних звуків, не могли порозумітись з польськими однолітками тощо. З нового навчального року у школах Польщі запроваджені новації, які дещо поліпшують ситуацію.
Основні зміни для українців у польських школах у 2023/2024 навчальному році такі:
• вводяться додаткові заняття з польської мови (від 6 годин на тиждень) індивідуально або у групах до 15 осіб;
• з'явиться можливість складати випускні іспити з іноземної мови, яку діти вивчали в українській школі;
• українці матимуть окремі терміни подання заяв для складання іспитів. 15 березня 2024 року - кінцевий термін подання на іспити після 8 класу, на атестат зрілості та професійний іспит;
• для учнів підготовчого класу (так званий нульовий клас для дітей 6–7 років) не буде щорічної атестації, якщо дитина погано володіє польською мовою (має бути відповідне рішення педагогічної ради);
• будуть створені додаткові групи у дошкільних навчальних закладах та 1-3 класах шкіл;
• навчальні заклади зможуть брати на роботу фахівців – психологів та соціальних педагогів, наприклад – без педагогічної освіти, які надаватимуть психологічну підтримку школярам. Крім цього, в екзаменаційній комісії працюватимуть люди зі знанням української мови;
• з’являться спеціальні інтеграційні та комбіновані групи, що спростить процес адаптації українців та дозволить їм ефективніше розібратися у навчальному процесі;
• українські діти зможуть взяти участь у програмі, за якою чотирикласникам видаватимуть ноутбуки. 7 липня 2023 року Сейм Польщі ухвалив Закон про підтримку розвитку цифрових компетенцій учнів та вчителів. Згідно з ним, забезпечення учнів безкоштовними комп'ютерами розпочнеться вже у 2023/2024 навчальному році. Батькам польських школярів, а також дітям з інших країн, які підуть до четвертого класу польських шкіл, можна буде оформити заявку на отримання ноутбука. Опція доступна як для учнів державних, так і для приватних шкіл.
Учні здають телефони у школі у Варшаві на час занять. Фото авторки
Отже, це торкається новацій. А тепер розберемо як на практиці вже відбувається процес навчання на прикладах українок, чиї діти відвідують школи у Польщі.
«Більше року в Польщі, а мову не вчать»
Українці Ірині з Києва школа у Варшаві подобається, хоча був один момент, що її збентежив: «Син пішов у перший клас 166 школи на Волі (район Варшави – ред.). У класі із 18 учнів 10 – українці. Було соромно, коли вчителі в чаті робили зауваження, що багато дітей вже понад рік в Польщі, а мову не вчать і даремно просиджують штани на уроках. Сподіваюся, обіцяні додаткові заняття з польської мови багатьох дисциплінують і будуть поштовхом до її вивчення», – вважає Ірина.
Мама другокласника Олена Катасонова живе за 40 км від Варшави у місті Груєць, у них із 17 осіб у класі 3 – українці.
«Ставлення хороше, минулого навчального року Рома був старостою класу, однокласники звуть на всі дні народження, атмосфера доброзичлива. У школі всі кабінети, а також туалет, їдальня, роздягальня підписані польською та українською мовами. У школі двічі на тиждень були безкоштовні додаткові заняття з польської мови. Зараз кажуть, що буде більше годин», – розповідає Олена про навчання свого 8-річного сина. Вона вважає, що головне дати дітям можливість навчатися. Далі вже від учнів та батьків залежить як скористатись цим шансом.
Роман Катасонов. Фото з архіву авторки
Як потрапити до школи, що не належить до вашого району?
Українці, що втікали від війни і отримали статус тимчасового захисту в Польщі (мусить мати PESEL ukr – це ідентифікаційний номер, який є у кожного резидента держави, за яким визначаються і питання працевлаштування, освіти, охорони здоров’я тощо) мають право подавати документи до будь-якої школи в цій країні. Однак треба зважати на ситуацію в кожному конкретному регіоні. Наприклад, школи Варшави зараз переповнені. І якщо прагнете, щоб дитина ходила до школи, що не відноситься до вашого району, то, швидше за все, вам відмовлять. Тому що зобов'язані взяти, в першу чергу, тих дітей, які проживають на відповідній території. У школах найчастіше просять показати договір оренди квартири, щоб з’ясувати це при прийомі дитини.
«Буває так, що школа за 3-4 км від будинку набагато краща, ніж найближча. А договір оренди у Польщі – це, по суті, надрукований на принтері документ без печаток. Але не слід забувати, що у країні законність документа засвідчують підписи, у договорі оренди є PESEL та дані власника житла. І за ними дуже просто все перевірити, бо школа інформує ужонд (місцева адміністрація в Польщі – ред.), звідки до них поступають на навчання діти. І там якраз уже можуть порівняти, чи правдиві дані вказані у договорі оренди», – попереджає фахівець з питань легалізації у Польщі Юлія Приходько.
Є легальний спосіб потрапити до школи, що не належить до вашого району, і для цього можна, наприклад, зареєструватися у хостелі у потрібному районі. У такому разі ви не порушуєте закон, але займаєте місця тих, хто проживає на цій території.
Скринька, де можна залишити лист до психолога. Школа у Варшаві. Фото авторки
«Ми не будемо вам прислужувати»
У польських школах бувають ситуації, до яких батьки виявляються не готові. Часто це стосується інклюзивних форм освіти.
Марина Леонова з Харкова має двох дітей. Цього року її хлопчики пішли у 7 та 3 клас школи номер 2 у районі Урсус у Варшаві.
«Це інтеграційна школа, де можуть навчатись як звичайні дітки, так і учні з особливостями. У мого молодшого сина Михайлика аутизм, тому школу обрали саме цю, хоча в нашому районі є декілька інших закладів. І от з його навчанням ситуація виявилась складною. Водночас мого старшого сина Івана вчителі та однокласники зустріли дуже добре, для українських дітей там є 6 годин польської на тиждень – додатково та безкоштовно», – ділиться Марина.
У класі, де навчається Михайло, загалом 26 дітей. Окрім сина Марини, є ще одна дитина з аутизмом.
«Не знаю, хто правий у цій ситуації, але з початку навчального року мені дають зрозуміти, що моя молодша дитина незручна. Я сподівалась, що в інтеграційній школі знайдуть підхід до сина, але там не розуміють проявів його емоцій.
Наприклад, Мишко може підійти та обійняти іншого хлопчика за живіт, або голосно заплакати. Раніше у нас був особистий тьютор, але у цій школі є один тьютор для всіх дітей, і він не завжди перебуває поруч з моїм сином. У школі сказали, що не прислуговуватимуть нам і натякнули, щоб ми шукали для Михайла спеціалізований навчальний заклад», – розповідає мама хлопчика.
Віддавати його до спецшколи Марина Леонова не хоче – було докладено надто багато сил, щоби адаптувати дитину з особливими потребами до життя у суспільстві. Сьогодні Мишко спокійно ходить з мамою магазинами, подорожує і не створює особливих проблем. Марина щиро вірить, що у школі він теж адаптується, що йому почнуть приділяти більше уваги.
Від 2400 до 9000 злотих за приватну школу
Про ефективне використання можливостей освіти знає Аліна, мати Іллі Сніжко, який відвідував приватну польську школу весь минулий навчальний рік. Перед цим кілька місяців дитина навчалася у державній школі на Жолібожі (ще один район Варшави). В Україні хлопчик вчився в англомовній школі і англійською розмовляв не гірше рідної, української. За першої ж нагоди у Польщі його перевели до приватного закладу з англійською мовою навчання.
«На своєму досвіді ми відчули, наскільки сильно відрізняється освіта у приватній та державній школі. По-перше, у звичайній школі 33 учня у класі, де вчителі фізично не в змозі приділити всім увагу, домашні завдання фактично не перевіряються, і дуже багато тримається на самодисципліні. Для мене було відкриттям, наскільки м'які тут учителі. У нас би вже викликали батьків до школи, якось покарали, а тут намагаються заспокоїти і загалом дітям дозволяють дуже багато. Працює принцип, що дитину не можна нічого змушувати робити без їі волі», – дивується жінка.
Після кількох місяців у державній школі батьки перевели сина до приватної двомовної школи. Зміни очевидні: у класі вдвічі менше дітей, домашніх завдань набагато більше та контроль за успішністю вище. На вході школярі залишають телефони у спеціальному осередку у адміністратора і забрати їх можуть лише, коли йдуть додому о 17-18 годині.
«Мені сподобалося, що дітей стимулюють до знань. Наприклад, за гарну успішність запрошують на чаювання з директором, всіляко заохочують, діти пишуть навіть наукові роботи англійською, дуже цікава група продовженого дня.
Є сквош, барабани, піаніно та спортивні активності. Пропонують екскурсії, поїздки вихідного дня, подорожі на канікулах країнами Європи. В принципі, створюється така атмосфера, що дитина сама хоче вчитися. Але програма п'ятого класу приблизно як в Україні у восьмому, дуже багато додаткових занять», – розповідає мама.
Приватна школа у Варшаві задоволення не з дешевих. Ціна двомовної школи коливається в межах 2400-4000 злотих на місяць, ціна за англомовну школу може сягати 9 тисяч злотих на місяць. Додатково оплачуються гуртки та секції за інтересами, шкільна форма, обіди, фонд екскурсій та друковані робочі зошити. При цьому в хороших приватних школах Варшави важко знайти місця, а вступні іспити не набагато легші, ніж до університету. Договір із приватною школою, як правило, укладається на рік. А якщо батьки вирішили розірвати його раніше, то часто зобов'язані попередити щонайменше, ніж за 4 місяці. Аліна змогла відновити бізнес у Польщі, той, що до війни мала в Україні, тому має надію впоратися з зобов’язаннями, адже її мета – найкраща освіта для сина.
Загалом, польська система освіти підходить до учня, в першу чергу, як до особистості – дитину не контролюють, не сварять, не змушують навчатися. Це чудово, бо йдеться про розвиток особистості. І водночас такий принцип вимагає самодисципліни від учня, тобто, дитина отримає знання, якщо вона сама цього хоче. Для нас, українців, де батьки звикли примушувати дітей виконувати домашні завдання, все перевіряти і сварити, трохи незвично. Правда?
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