«Три роки без сну, два — без жодної звістки». Як триматися, коли чекаєш рідну людину з полону?

Since 2014, the return of prisoners of war has been handled by the Joint Centre for the Search and Release of Prisoners of War under the SSU. However, with the onset of full-scale war, the number of captives increased significantly, leading to the establishment of the Coordination Headquarters for the Treatment of Prisoners of War in March 2022. The Head of its Central Representation, Yuliya Pavliuk, emphasises: the main priority is to locate and bring back all captives, but equally important is supporting the families of those missing in action and those waiting for their loved ones to return from captivity.

Nataliya Zhukovska: How are the lists of prisoners of war for exchange formed?

Yuliya Pavliuk: At the onset of the full-scale invasion, Ukraine established the National Information Bureau (NIB). According to the Geneva Convention on international law, this serves as a registry that records all defenders who are missing in action, regardless of their status. Even if military personnel have no relatives, information still has to be included in the NIB by the units where they served. This registry, in essence, becomes the exchange list as it is continuously communicated to the Russian side. In reality, according to international conventions and laws, prisoner exchanges should not occur during active combat. Ukraine currently has unique experience in this field.

There is no clear and regulated system for conducting exchanges. Every exchange and every negotiation is a special operation. Different negotiations for every individual

Of course, we do not disclose the uniqueness, methods, or schemes of conducting negotiations. This is classified information. However, in general, there is prioritisation. Those who have been in captivity since 2014 are a priority. We understand these individuals have spent more than nine years in captivity. However, when Russia proposes to return someone with a shorter duration of captivity, Ukraine accepts them.

Sometimes, after exchanges, misunderstandings and questions arise from families: «Why was that person exchanged and not ours?» Unfortunately, we cannot always dictate conditions to the enemy.

In addition, priority is given to severely ill and wounded men and women. According to international law, such categories of military personnel should be returned to their home country outside of exchanges. However, we know that our enemy does not adhere to these agreements. Overall, Ukraine's official position remains unchanged: we are ready to exchange everyone for everyone.

And who is exchanged with «more difficulty»?

There are categories of officers from certain Armed Forces units, the National Guard of Ukraine, and border guards whom Russia is reluctant to return. Furthermore, sometimes the Russians attach particular significance to prisoners of war with media coverage - those prominent in the media. As a result, media stories do not always positively influence exchange processes. We emphasise this when communicating with families. If relatives want to help somehow, they must consult specialists. War must be managed by the military. When improvisation begins, it is not good and can only cause harm.

If we look at the exchange statistics, for instance, if 100 people are returned, this number proportionally includes military personnel from different units. And if the Armed Forces are the largest, then their members will constitute the majority in captivity

The Armed Forces include the Marine Corps, ground units, assault brigades, reconnaissance battalions, tank crews and artillery personnel. The Armed Forces also have transport services, for example, which are less publicised and discussed, but many of their members are also in captivity. When families question why there are so few of «theirs», it is essential to understand that we consider the approximate total number of those who might be in captivity - tens of thousands of people. In each exchange, there will be more members of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, slightly fewer from the National Guard, border guards, and so on.

Fortunately, there has been significant progress in negotiations, as evidenced by recent exchanges. We have been able to return many defenders who had received life sentences or terms of imprisonment of 8-9 years.

Why are there delays in the exchange of prisoners? What causes prolonged pauses?

Regrettably, this does not depend solely on Ukraine. There are no fixed timelines, such as exchanges every Tuesday or every second Wednesday. It is an unregulated process. There have been instances where timelines and the number of people were agreed upon, only for the exchange to be cancelled either by Russia or due to the overall security situation. For example, if the exchange point comes under fire, the exchange cannot take place that day or soon after.

The exchange itself is a special operation. It may be scheduled for 8:00 in the morning but could be delayed until noon or 8:00 in the evening

Sometimes, Russia announces through its media that the exchange has already taken place when, in fact, it has not. The conditions under which the exchange occurs largely depend on the Russian side.

Where are Ukrainian prisoners held? Where are the worst conditions? What do freed military personnel say about captivity?

There is no «good» captivity. Detainees in prisons and detention centres have limited access to fresh air. They are confined to one room containing a toilet, a table where they eat and sleep, and a single window high up on the wall that does not open. Sometimes walks are allowed, but regimes are not always adhered to. From our side, the only demand we can and do make to the aggressor country is compliance with international conditions and conventions. If they held our defenders under conditions at least consistent with those outlined in the Geneva Convention, the health and well-being of the returned men and women would be significantly better.

Unfortunately, we cannot always influence this situation. Of course, upon their return, military personnel speak extensively about the torture they endured. We continually appeal to our international partners, particularly the UN mission and the International Red Cross. They are responsible for the condition of our military personnel.

Many of the freed men suffer from severe illnesses, consequences of serious injuries, and significant weight loss due to torture and inadequate nutrition

Upon returning from captivity, they undergo interviews with specialised services. The war crimes committed by the enemy are meticulously documented. What we can do now is document all the facts and transfer them to the appropriate international bodies.

How would you evaluate the activities of the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC)? What are the challenges in working with them?

Regrettably, representatives of this organisation in Russia are almost never allowed access to places where Ukrainian prisoners are held. Their work in temporarily occupied territories and in Russia is currently very limited and insufficient. Most of our defenders, returned from captivity, claim they have never seen Red Cross representatives even once. This particularly includes the delivery of letters and parcels. Even if parcels are sent via the Red Cross, they do not always reach the prisoners. We understand that the administration of the detention facilities may keep the parcels. However, the Red Cross should ensure that the parcels reach their intended recipients.

That is why we appeal to all international organisations and urge them to ensure the implementation of the mandate granted to the ICRC specifically in the aggressor’s country. They are the guarantors of the safety of our defenders there. We, in turn, provide every possible assistance to the Red Cross Mission in Ukraine. We have even created so-called mixed medical commissions, where representatives of various organisations, including the Red Cross, can visit prisoners and assess their condition. Through this initiative, we hoped Russia would follow our example and provide the same access to our prisoners. Unfortunately, to date, we see no results.

Can this explain why the Russians treat some battalions in captivity worse than others?

I see the men and women who return. I am present at every exchange. I cannot say that the condition of the military personnel depends on the unit they are in. I always state that much depends on the condition of the defenders at the time of their capture, their endurance, and their internal strength.

For those weaker in character and spirit, of course, it is harder. During one exchange, representatives of Ukraine’s KORD unit and the National Police were among those returned. One serviceman appeared to be in good physical shape. I asked him: «How did you manage? What were your conditions?» He replied: «I used all my efforts to keep myself in good shape. Whenever possible, I exercised - push-ups or pull-ups.»

Why are the conditions of Russian prisoners of war so drastically different from those of Ukrainian ones? How do they form the lists for exchange on their side?

The conditions differ because Ukraine is a legal state, which sets us apart from our enemy. We adhere to international conditions, conventions, and legislation. This is why all civilised countries of the world support us.

There are prescribed conditions under which prisoners of war should be held. In Ukraine, there are camps — special places for keeping prisoners. We are not like Russians.

Regarding the formation of exchange lists by the Russians, we cannot comment on this. Sometimes even the lists published by Russia do not always correspond to reality

If we analyse the latest Russian disinformation campaigns, the lists include individuals who have already been freed from captivity. At the same time, there are no severely wounded individuals, those who have been in captivity since the early days of the war, members of the Mariupol garrison, Chornobyl NPP personnel who are still held, or defenders from Zmiinyi Island. This is all done to spread disinformation and provoke our society. In my opinion, they form these lists randomly. Additionally, the Russians sometimes include civilians in the lists who, under the Geneva Conventions, should have been released without any exchange.

What should be the first steps if a loved one goes missing or is taken captive?

The first step when a serviceman goes missing is for the family to receive a notification from territorial recruitment centres if it concerns Armed Forces units. For units of the National Guard, border guards, or police officers, families receive information from their respective units. Next, families should contact law enforcement and file a report stating that their loved one is missing. Naturally, they should also contact the Coordination Headquarters. This is where people can receive clarifications on various issues. The Coordination Headquarters website has a personal account feature, which family members or representatives of the defender must use. It contains the most comprehensive information.

We always emphasise that this is a very powerful system where all available information about the defender must be provided, and families must ensure that this account is always active. And, of course, stay in touch.

What should absolutely not be done? Are there known cases where families of captives are approached with fraudulent offers, such as asking for money to return someone from captivity?

We constantly tell people to verify all information carefully with representatives of law enforcement or security units. War is a matter for the military. Unfortunately, fraudsters exploit human grief. Families post information on social networks, and fraudsters use it.

My personal advice as a representative of the Coordination Headquarters and a human rights lawyer is never to do this. Information posted online can also be found by representatives of the aggressor country. Fraudsters use it for personal gain through deceitful means, and the enemy uses it to obtain, among other things, intelligence data. Therefore, we advise: «Consult with special services». We know precisely how to follow this path correctly to avoid harming the family, the defender, or the state’s security.

How can the relatives or loved ones of captives assist in their release?

The exchange and return of prisoners are operational special operations that relatives are not involved in. Today, many families unite in community organisations. A coordination council has been established under the Coordination Headquarters, which includes representatives of these community organisations. We understand that the number of missing servicemen is too large for the Coordination Headquarters to handle alone. However, these community organisations will be involved in these processes. Such work is effective.

They also participate in international negotiations and conferences. Furthermore, relatives often find information about captives - possible photographs or videos - in enemy public forums. Verified information is then added to the personal account by the Coordination Headquarters. Such assistance from families is invaluable.

Do public actions in support of prisoners of war help accelerate exchanges, or do they hinder them?

In my opinion, awareness campaigns are appropriate during a time of war. Our nation must demonstrate its unity.

Moreover, these campaigns are a constant reminder to the world that we are enduring a bloody war, and thousands of prisoners are still held in the aggressor’s country and must be brought home.

Awareness campaigns are for the community. Negotiations and exchanges are handled by the military

However, when campaigns involve accusations and discrediting of state institutions, this undeniably plays into the hands of the Russians.

The UN Human Rights Monitoring Mission in Ukraine reported in October on torture and mistreatment of Ukrainian prisoners of war. At the same time, they noted that they had documented mistreatment of Russian armed forces prisoners of war. How objective is this report?

Ukraine is fully open to international observers, primarily to representatives of the UN and the Red Cross. We provide them with complete assistance. At the same time, the Russian side does not allow these representatives to even interview prisoners of war. This creates a very unequal situation, where we are fully transparent, and representatives can interview Russian prisoners of war and visit places of detention, but our men and women are completely inaccessible. This is a one-sided situation. The claims about the alleged mistreatment of Russian armed forces prisoners are just testimonies and statements. Let me tell you as a former investigator: to prove crimes, you need evidence. And that is not just words. There must be evidence, such as an inspection of the location and the condition of the defender. When we see our men returned with visible injuries, these are documented. This provides a much stronger evidentiary base than just words or statements someone might provide.

Does international humanitarian law work during the war in Ukraine? What are the chances of holding Russian war criminals accountable for violations of the Geneva Conventions?

We need to win the war. All those guilty must and will be punished. If we are speaking about the documentation of war crimes, everyone sees the condition in which Ukrainian prisoners of war return home. The evidence and facts that Ukraine possesses are indisputable. Accountability will happen. It is just a matter of time.

Photos provided by the press service of the Central Representation of the Coordination Headquarters on the Treatment of Prisoners of War

Superhumans, «supers» - that’s what patients are called in the Superhumans rehabilitation centre. This modern clinic specialises in prosthetics, rehabilitation, reconstructive surgery, and psychological support for injured military personnel and civilians. All services are provided to patients free of charge. The facility operates on donations, including from Ukrainian benefactors. Sestry spoke with the CEO of the Superhumans Center, Olga Rudnieva, about the facility's capabilities, current challenges, and the prospects for prosthetics and reconstruction development in Ukraine.

For us, there are no problems. There are challenges.

Nataliia Zhukovska: Olga, the Superhumans Center can host up to 70 monthly patients.  How are you managing with today’s influx of patients?

Olga Rudneva: According to our plan, we were supposed to have up to 50 monthly prosthetic, rehabilitation, and psychological support patients. But we understand that the queue is quite large, and it’s not getting any smaller. Currently, there are over 800 patients on our waiting list. Therefore we’ve raised the monthly amount of patients to 70.

I think we could take in even a hundred patients but it would be financially difficult. After all, this is quite an expensive undertaking.

For example, fifty patients cost over a million dollars just for prosthetic components. And that’s assuming we supply all of them with only basic mechanical prosthetics. However, many people receive things like myoelectric hands and electronic knees at our facility, which are several times more expensive. Additionally, we already have a ward fund in the reconstructive surgery department. We perform facial reconstructions, which are quite complex procedures lasting up to 15 hours, involving flap transplants - a complex of tissues consisting of skin, muscle, and bone fragments with mandatory preservation of blood vessels. The recovery is rather slow, for these are patients with difficult cases. We also perform hearing restoration surgeries. Recently we’ve also started working on eyes, - specifically eye implants. And there are patients, on whom we perform reamputation surgeries due to complications like fragment expulsions, osteophytes, or neuromas. Accordingly, we could add another 45-50 monthly patients. In total, we have 100-110 patients simultaneously at Superhumans each month.

And who’s aiding Superhumans financially?

We don’t use state funds at all. We’ve had this strategy and philosophy since the start. We believe that the state should spend its money on defence, while additional resources can be attracted from donors for humanitarian projects.

Our biggest benefactor - American philanthrop Howard Buffett, who covered yearly prosthetics costs for 500 people.

And this is a significant support for us. We also engage in fundraising. We have a wide circle of benefactors from Ukraine and around the world. We are constantly working on attracting additional resources for various areas - psychological support, prosthetics, and reconstructive surgery.

What are the three biggest problems that the Superhumans Centre encounters today?

There are no problems for us. There are challenges that we address. These challenges can be sorted by areas. People are a major challenge - we require high-quality specialists. Teamwork is a challenge as well since Ukrainian doctors aren’t used to working in teams, and our patients are part of this team. Another challenge is Ukraine’s accessibility. Because when a patient leaves our facility, he enters the real world again. If he encounters difficulties with integration and mobility, it threatens his mental state, and in time he could return to us once again.

And we do not want patients to return for psychological rehabilitation. It's important for us that they integrate into civilian life as quickly as possible.

The challenges include scaling the Superhumans model across Ukraine. The next two centres are set to open in Odesa and Dnipro. When it comes to purely medical challenges, we deal with difficult amputation cases. There’s also infection control because our patients often arrive with numerous infections. Before reaching us, they may have been in 6-7 different hospitals and have picked up infections during evacuation. Many of the injuries are from landmines and explosives, with numerous complications. There are many challenges, but none are insoluble.

You are against Ukrainians receiving prosthetics abroad. Why is that?

We must develop our own expertise in Ukraine, and prepare our specialists to become independent of western medical support. It won’t last forever. Unfortunately, as of today, we’re facing a large number of upper limb amputations, double and even triple amputations that are difficult to work with. Despite that, why should we send our most complicated patients abroad? To educate foreign specialists?

We have everything to completely ensure the installation of prosthetics for our people here, in Ukraine.

Secondly, a prosthetist and a patient are linked for life. Weight changes, changes in the patient's needs regarding the prosthesis - all of these require adjustments, servicing, and fine-tuning. It's simpler to do this in Ukraine. Returning abroad for these adjustments is very costly. It's unlikely for a person to collect the necessary funds to modify, for example, a prosthetic socket or reprogram something in their knee. Consequently, the overwhelming majority of people who were initially fitted with prosthetics abroad end up getting re-fitted in Ukraine over time. And the third factor is the language barrier. We have quite a few patients who received high-quality prosthetics abroad but came to Ukraine for rehabilitation because they didn't receive psychological support abroad due to language barriers or insufficient rehabilitation. These issues highlight the inefficiency of prosthetics abroad. Therefore, we must do everything to provide all these services locally.

How would you rate the current prosthetics level in Ukraine? What has changed in the last few years?

Our prosthetics level is quite high. Foreign experts, who used to come to teach us, now say: «There’s nothing more we can teach you. We should come and learn from you». The number of complex cases we've seen in Ukraine and at Superhumans over the past year matches all of the ones that Walter Reed (an American military hospital - author.) has encountered throughout its history of working with veterans' prosthetics in the U.S. Therefore, we already have the experience. Our prosthesits are constantly learning and have practical skills. This is not only true for Superhumans. Overall, there are a lot of skilled specialists in Ukraine.

The only issue is that we lack upper limb prosthetists. We constantly invite foreign experts to come and help us fit prosthetics for our patients.

But all in all, Ukraine has the experience, and the prosthetists. There just needs to be more of them. And we’re educating them right now, specifically at Lviv Polytechnic on our base and the UNBROKEN base, meaning that these people will soon become available on the job market and will be highly qualified.

Reconstructive surgery - it’s expensive and difficult

In war, people not only lose their limbs but also suffer facial injuries. At the end of February, the Superhumans Center started operating a reconstructive surgery department. How developed is this field in Ukraine?

We perform a considerable number of facial reconstructions and surgical interventions. However, the problem is that these are mostly carried out by doctors specialising in maxillofacial trauma, whereas general surgeons are needed. This is because the procedures involve implants and grafting skin from various body and facial parts. Together with the Ministry of Health, we have started a reform in training and preparing such specialists. We indeed lack experience in this area. Moreover, there are few schools worldwide that train specialists in this field. Together with the Ministry of Health of Ukraine, we are collaborating with France in this direction. Additionally, we need to prepare people who specialize in postoperative care, as patients will require long-term recovery and special care to minimise rejection, infection, and complications.

Is there a sufficient amount of specialists in the field of reconstructive facial surgery? Where do you look for them?

Today, we have joint teams operating - Ukrainian specialists together with their French or Czech colleagues. Each case is documented, broadcast live from the operating room, and discussed with experts. Every surgery is described as a case study and made available to the market so other surgeons can view it and ask questions. Additionally, American and Canadian missions come to help with facial reconstructive surgery. Thanks to the international medical partnership initiated by the First Lady, we have gained access to the world's best surgeons.

Our team of doctors includes those who performed the world's first face transplant operation.

They are interested in our complex cases, and we require their experience. Besides, reconstructive surgery is expensive, as the implants themselves are costly.

People with facial injuries are difficult patients from the perspective of not only physical but psychological recovery. Do they work with psychologists? Is there enough of them?

The first step for a patient at the centre is a meeting with a psychologist and an assessment of their psychological state. Regardless of the newcomer’s condition, their first meeting is with a psychologist who evaluates their mental state. The psychologist is the person who accompanies the patient throughout the entire treatment period. It is quite challenging for the patient to go through the recovery period, which sometimes lasts 3-5 years. Until the person is satisfied with the result, a psychologist has to be by their side, accompanying them through all these interventions.

We wouldn’t have initiated the treatment if we were lacking such specialists

This is not the case where we can figure out in the process that we’re lacking, for example, three specialists. They’re not trained in one night. Therefore, we form a team from the get-go. For instance, the Superhumans Center in Odesa is set to open in February but team-forming and preparation will start in September. In Dnipro, the centre should open in September 2025 but the teams have already started preparing. Hence, the team preparation period for launching a new centre or service is quite time-consuming.

We work with every investor and explain where their money will go

During your work trips abroad, you always encourage the West to engage more actively in supporting Ukraine. What particular aid and support would you like to see from them in the foreseeable future?

We always ask for weapons. This will help us end the war sooner. We understand that the sooner this happens, the less work we will have. We also ask for support for humanitarian projects, especially in education and healthcare. We believe these two areas are crucial for the country to function after the victory. Therefore, we constantly encourage foreign donors to pay attention to them and support us. Whether we are heard depends solely on us - on how we convey our thoughts. If we don't receive funding, it is our problem. It means we are not communicating effectively. After all, there are many problems in the world. We are not the only country at war.

And it is our job to ask for help, to encourage and invite additional resources here

And I believe everyone is doing that - from the President to a mother in Kharkiv who helps his husband on the frontline.

Olga, you once said that you dreamed of meeting Richard Branson and Bono face to face. And you did. You felt inspired by Hillary Clinton - and she invited you to her podcast. What rendezvous do you dream of today?

I think I’ve accomplished everything I dreamed of. There are certain plans for people we’re interested in working with. We would like them to engage in supporting Ukraine more actively. Accordingly, all of them are on our list.

You see, these meetings are not just for Olga Rudneva to somehow satisfy her ego. They’re about what these people can do for Ukraine

They can join support, provide additional funds, resources for certain projects. Therefore, we choose such people ourselves, people who are important for us to work with, and to be led into Ukraine as support. In my personal list, there are people like Oprah Winfrey, Jeff Bezos, and Melinda Gates. These are people who are still not involved in supporting Ukraine on the scale that we would prefer.

We have all been traumatised by the war

Olga, what do you learn from the Superhumans?

In our interactions with patients, we continuously improve our services. We follow their needs and adapt accordingly. The centre evolves, as does our vision of what it should be. This ranges from rebuilding the entire country in terms of accessibility to changing attitudes toward certain things. When you communicate with someone who has lost two, three, or even four limbs and see what they can achieve, it's a profound source of insights. It's a constant learning process. We enhance our personal and team qualities through these interactions. We remodel the centre to make it more convenient for them, ensuring the service is of higher quality and seamless.

Personally, they taught me endurance, and the ability to have less, but do more.

Tha is probably what they teach us every day. They taught us to dream and understand that it's not really about legs and arms, but about where we are going and why we need these limbs. The overwhelming majority of people have four limbs, and the most they use them for is to write angry comments on Facebook. That's the only thing they produce for the outside world. This raises the question of whether they really need their legs and arms to share negative content online. We have our "supers" who don't have four limbs.

They win marathons, climb mountains, learn to write, write books, learn to write with their other hand

You see these people and realise - yes, hands are really needed, and not just as hands, but hands for something meaningful. This understanding of «why?» actually came from our «supers». And there is an incredible gratitude for the standard set of limbs you feel every day because you can save a tremendous amount of energy and do things much faster. You understand that beside you is someone who does no less than you but spends much more effort and health to accomplish something. This gratitude is immense. People come to us with new stories every time. And this interaction is invaluable.

What do Superhumans’ patients dream of and what are they afraid of the most?

This is very individual. It’s hard to generalise this. Of course, everyone dreams of victory, and also - of finding their place in life. We try to help people achieve their dream, which can be divided into goals.

Every day, a person has to know why they get up in the morning and put on their prosthetics.

This is very important because without all this, the rehabilitation process can be prolonged for months, and that's not right. We help our «supers» find a purpose. And they are actually afraid of things that might seem trivial. Their biggest fear is telling their mothers that they have lost a limb. The guys fear that their wives will come, open the door to the ward, see the missing arm or leg, and say, «I told you so». They fear they won't be able to integrate into civilian life. They worry that people will point at them on the street, that they won't be able to connect with people who have never been to war. They fear they might lose their temper because they know they also represent the veteran community. They fear losing friends who are still fighting and not having enough resources to help their comrades who are still at war. Their fears are very much in the context of today. They are more afraid of the social aspects they might face because of their disability.

How do you help yourself when it gets hard emotionally and where do you look for motivation?

It does not get emotionally difficult for me. I don't experience periods of depression or despair. When you realise what you're doing, for whom, and why, you don't need to look for motivation. The difficulty lies purely in logistics - juggling different tasks. For instance, you might have Hillary Clinton on call while a patient requires immediate help, and at the same time, you need to decide who will take out the trash, which somehow falls onto you. It's challenging to manage different tasks simultaneously. You're a living person, and you must distribute the 24 hours you have each day effectively. But emotionally, it's not difficult for me. Despair and depression consume resources that are already very limited. I can't afford to spend them on such trivialities. Resources are limited in time, emotions, and even my knowledge. Therefore, I have to use them as efficiently as possible.

Yes, I hear different human stories every day, but I don't consider, for example, the story of someone losing four limbs as negative. The person is alive, standing in front of me. I understand what I can do for them. If they want to, they will have a wonderful life. Of course, if I were burying my comrades every day or on the frontlines unable to provide help, and people were dying in my arms, I would be emotionally devastated. But I don't see that.

I work with people who survived. These stories are borderline fantasy. These are survivors that have a future.

And if they came to us, they are dreaming of recovery and life. When I see someone in a wheelchair, I already envision them standing on their feet, holding a cup for the first time. I don't see a person without limbs. So, there's nothing for me to worry about. Nothing destroys me because I work with hope every day. And it's not mythical. We've already helped 550 patients who left us on their own two feet. They have lives that go on, families, and they dream and have children. The stories of our «supers» are stories of victory, even if they are incredibly challenging.

Does society have to be prepared for interaction with veterans? What should Ukrainians realise during this war?

All of us are traumatised in different ways, as a consequence of the war. To some, this means a lost home, a lost life, to others, it means losing their loved ones, some are veterans themselves, and some lived abroad and are returning to Ukraine. We all have different traumas and experiences of war. And we have to intertwine these experiences and learn to live together. And this is not a question of whether we have to learn to live with veterans. We need to learn to live with one another overall, to interact with the understanding that anyone standing in front of us has some kind of war trauma. Just like us. To treat each other with respect and understanding. After that, it’s a technical question. What trauma does the person in front of me have and what have they been through? They could’ve gone through the war, been wounded three thousand times, and be less traumatised than someone who’s lived abroad the entire time and came back with immense guilt.

We are all different. There is no special device that we could use to measure each other’s trauma

Our stress resilience and response to trauma is also different. Consequently, it's hard to determine whose trauma is deeper or more damaging to the state and to the individual. Therefore, we need to prepare to live with a range of war experiences within the same country. I believe that this is going to be our greatest challenge yet.